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0xtero
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  1. Don’t expect privacy. Everything you post is public.
  2. Goto 1
lemmyvore
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211Y

We’re talking about doxxing, which is private information posted against the person’s will, not necessarily by the person themselves. You can get doxxed even if you do everything right.

0xtero
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Yeah, not much you can do about it apart from the things outlined in the OP.

A nazi dickhed running pleroma on his rapsberry pie isn’t going to respect federation moderation messages, DMCA or GDPR. You can try to complain to their ISP, but chances that someone is reading the abuse mailbox and acts on it is… slim.

So act like there’s no privacy at all.

lemmyvore
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21Y

There should be a reputation score or something for instances. We all like freedom but there’s also gotta be boundaries and consequences.

0xtero
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I think it might have been an idea to make instance federation to default into a whitelist instead of relying on everyone having to blacklist random raspberry pies around the world.

@HardlightCereal@lemmy.ml
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0xtero
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Yeah, if that kind of thing is part of your threat model.

The tools to protect users on fedi are a bag of shit (partly due to the federated nature of it all, but also due to the fact that no one really thought about “what to do about abuse”).

Even if you dont use lemmy or other websites your information can still be posted there by someone who wants to do that

Any joe shmoe can spin up an instance, post your personal details (or personal details they made up), and bada bing bada boom, your identity is compromised forever.

Replace “instance” with “website” and that’s how the internet works. There are avenues in the legal system to combat this, but generally people can post speech (illegal or not) very easily with the internet, having rapid, free, open communication is a net positive for society even if occasionally there are downsides.

Lemmy can’t solve doxxing or other forms of abuse any better than a centralized service can, which they don’t do particularly well as it is. What Lemmy does do it put control over what content is promoted into the hands of users and instance admins, as opposed to a few execs at Meta. If an instance has poor moderation, it will be ‘de-federated’ by other lemmy instances, which means content from their instance won’t travel across the fediverse. So in general, I think you can expect good moderation. Unlike centralized services, instance admins are not incentivized to shove polarizing content and misinformation into your feed. That pipeline of increasingly polarizing content is the root cause of many situations which involve doxxing in the first place.

@HardlightCereal@lemmy.ml
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I don’t care so much if my personal info is posted to a website like kiwifarms or someone’s private blog, because those websites are harder to find in search results

So is most of Lemmy

Big companies have a desire to protect themselves from prosecution for hosting illegal activity.

So do Lemmy instance hosters, the hosting companies they use, and the other instances which federate with them.

They specifically hire people to moderate content and reduce their liability.

Once can expect lemmy instances to do this once they reach a certain size. If you don’t moderate sufficiently, you get de-federated, and your users won’t want to use your instance, so lemmy instances which want to grow will keep a handle on good moderation,

But she can run a Lemmy instance that will federate with the entire rest of the fediverse and expose her content to potentially thousands of people.

If she posts it to a lemmy community the mod that community or instance will remove it. If she hosts her own instance for the purposes of doxxing people nobody will even see the post (since it’s not getting upvoted across fedi) and other instances will de-federate.

Ultimately, if you are at high risk of doxxing, the best measures to protect yourself are mostly based not around which platforms you trust or not, but around engaging with those platforms in a way which protects your privacy. Might want to check out the surveillance self-defense guide. https://ssd.eff.org/

Even on Reddit there are mirror websites designed to preserve deleted content, and there’s also the internet archive and Google cache, screenshots, etc.

Once information is posted online it’s available. It can be obfuscated or loosely scrubbed, but you can never know it’s clean.

copygirl
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A personal instance generally doesn’t have a big reach, unless people actively follow the person who’s posting the doxxing information.* The fediverse may not be a good way to spread personal information of others, throwing up an instance like that is not much different than throwing up a website or forum.

There’s two things I can think of you can do: Contact the company that hosts the website to take it down – I’m unsure about how you go about this, but I’m sure you can find out more about that. And to report the instance to other instance admins to get it blacklisted, perhaps get it on a block list, limiting its reach and thus effectiveness. Get in contact with big instance admins, they likely have chatrooms you could join, and they might be able to help with the other step as well.

*edit: In the case of Lemmy, I suppose it would be people following a community, rather than a user directly. If moderators or admins act on the posted informated and delete it, the deletion will federate as well and any legitimate instance will automatically delete the content on their servers as well. This would also be true for Mastodon and such. If not, the above applies.

I don’t have a habit of sharing identifiable information on the internet, but that goes doubly true here.

While using another instance, the one with the bee theme, I deleted a comment that I made sometime sooner. Out of curiosity I checked that same thread from the other instances, and there was one where my comment was still showing up.

Now, that comment wasn’t anything special. I said something wrong and found out later, so I deleted it.

But what this means is that, if I share something I shouldn’t, I don’t trust that every instance will delete my comment.

  • Don’t post personal information
  • use throwaways
  • don’t take the strangers you communicate with, as trustworthy friends

The problem with the fediverse in that regard is that it’s basically multicasted. On one hand that’s a negative for the reasons you’ve said, but on the other hand it means you can easily dig up information that moderators and admins acting in bad faith can hide and then claim whatever bullshit they want.

Ultimately, you really shouldn’t be seeking privacy in lemmy and should try to refrain from using information that can personally identify you if you are really afraid or really incapable of having a public presence. If someone tries to dox you, they could dox you from any website. If they do, the way to proceed with that is usually filling out a police complaint form and/or any other specialized agency in your country block that can deal with it, or if you have the money, to get in contact with a lawyer which usually makes it about who has the biggest bank.

However, we also have to understand what is being called doxing. In your case, I understand its someone pointing out an alt that had apparently posted content word for word. Doxing generally involves things like the SWAT showing up and assaulting your home or people messing up your personal life by making personal data public for misuse. I’m not sure how noting similarities to try to imply that you should also be banned applies here.

And trust me, I’m in a very similar situation, except it involves an admin committing libel just because I complained about them where people who complain about them also have, ergo I must be whatever the worst shit that he can throw at me and get to stick is, which apparently has been that I’m an alt of an account who is a pedophile on another server. Not only that, they didn’t even mind including and leaving several links to an external server spread out through several comments that they claim hosts the pedophilia with the implication that people go there and check it out for themselves to confirm an association to the person they were accusing. Implied because, well, they are just leaving the link there without any real explanation, which might mean a user on a “No porn” instance could also randomly click on it if they are careless.

Going after libel is pretty shit, you can’t really do anything about it, but I have reported the links to what is by their own words pedophilia to the appropriate organizations because that’s far more serious and I’m sure not going to sort through that shit. But would I call it doxing? Well, besides the fact that the claim is false, no, sometimes libel is just libel, and sometimes linking to CSAM for any reason is still linking to CSAM. Looking at this, some lawyers do claim it is when it is tracking multiple usernames, although I imagine it might involve associating accounts with personal identifying information.

Doing it isn’t necessarily wrong but should be limited to gathering information to report to law enforcement agencies to help with their investigations, if it’s something more than casual speculation. In communities where the community itself can be considered an extension of the authority, the issue limited to it, where transparency is valued, and where the information itself isn’t really that personally identifying, well, the circumstances seem different. Frankly, I think an abuse of authority is worse than doxing in such an environment, specially in a social network where you control the flow of communication. If that’s your case, you should probably be calling that out instead.

@HardlightCereal@lemmy.ml
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Ada
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Ada claims a deleted comment as evidence, because nobody can actually check a deleted comment

An admin of lemmy.ml will be able to see it in your post history, just as I can. I assume admins of other instances that it federated to will also be able to see it. Either way, this is the original URL on lemmy.ml https://lemmy.ml/post/3893219. Here is a snippet of it

You can also find a word for word duplicate of that post by the user you are claiming not to be here https://lemm.ee/post/5490949. It too has been removed, but admins will be able to see it.

You can see a snippet of it here.

Aren’t you proving his point, neither of those can be viewed by us normal users. If you want to archive posts, you can do so through web.archive.org next time.

But besides being claims that are impossible for any user to verify without context, the scope of it really seems like something that should be limited to your instance and discussions with the admins of other instances. You can’t just keep chopping hydra heads, you’d do better by trying to get in contact with the admins who can see it directly, if it is affecting your instance.

To that end, archiving the evidence and creating one huge mega-thread or document that you can just include when needed might better serve you. Like I told the user, I don’t see it as doxing, just potentially libel, so that’s all you have to dismiss from your end. Just try to avoid collecting and pointing to personally identifying information and if anything keep it about the argument that’s being claimed to dismiss it and not just the person. If you need to implement data retention policies for personal data, you can also say so, telling them you can’t identify them but these sort of arguments have been made in the past which could be what they are referring to, etc. I’m no lawyer, just my two cents.

If the case is that they keep bringing it up, I don’t see it as harassment to respond to them, and it clearly isn’t an issue that can be argued based on one word premises alone. If someone is repeatedly commenting on someone else’s comments, I guess it depends on how much it involves them as well.

@HardlightCereal@lemmy.ml
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